Talk:Belasco (Earth-616)
I understand that the Handbook hinted that it might serve as a fallacious account, but I disagree with their logic, which was "Second, it is impossible to believe that the pre-cataclysmic Atlantean scientists could have built a replice of Hell that resembles, in such close detail, the visions of Hell that were independently developed by the ancient Greeks, and by Christianity thousands of years later." It is not really a problem, that the Atlanteans had a belief in an afterlife that so closely resembled later Christian and Hades/Zeus polytheistic beliefs*. There is a very simple explanation to this. Namely gods have been known to steal from other gods. To accentuate this, I refer you to Punisher Annual#2, where it was revealed that the god Seth usurped the worshippers of the older god Set by fooling them into thinking he was their god. He did this by stealing many motifs from Set worship. While this is the most blatant example, taking a look at the gods and religions of the Thurian Age (the time before Atlantis sank) and of Conans' time the Hyborian Age, we find the following interesting parallels with later religions; *in Kull II#2, Kull states he will get married when Hell freezes over. This idiomatic saying indicates that the Atlanteans believed in a fiery afterlife.* *In Marvel Features Presents Red Sonja#4;a group of people pretended to be gorgons- complete with snakes for hair and turning people into stone. Keep in mind that Red Sonja lived thousands of years before Hercules fought Medusa in Marvel Preview#10. *In Conan the Barbarian#250, Conan and his friend encountered a ferryman who brought people to the afterlife in payment for a coin-an obvious parallel to Charon. Red Sonja also encountered a boatman of death in Red Sonja#14 *In the Marvel Universe, the earliest known use of the cross was during the Hyborian Age, in worship of the god Mitra. Versions of the Mitran cross, as seen on the uniforms of soldiers in King Conan#30 and #34, exactly resembled most modern Christian crosses. Mitra worshippers even used crosses against vampires in Savage Sword of Conan#141!* The Hyborian Age neighbors of Conan worshipped deities called Thorr, Woden, Hoder, Balder, Ymir, et al. thousands of years before the Vikings. So, it is not so strange that the Atlanteans could have had a conception of the afterlife so similar to that of Christianity and pagansim of Greek antiquity. Perhaps a little notation could be put in? It was not definitevly stated that Belasco was dissembling. ............................................................................... *Jesus obviously was not born until years after Atlantis sank, and you would probably be correct in presuming that Zeus and the Olympian gods did not exist in the Thurian Era. After all, Conan once encountered some time-travelling Greeks, and when one of them mentioned Zeus, Conan replied "I have never heard of any god or demon named "Zoos". Still, as explained above, Zeus and Jesus probably stole some motifs from older gods. **Actually, if you check Belasco's entry in the Marvel Zombies Handbook (which came out Sept 2007, a month before the first post here), you'll see that it concurs with the original poster's reasoning. It doesn't suggest there is any doubt to Belasco's origin, partly because we've seen that Belasco was involved with creating the Cat People, confirming he was a human sorcerer centuries ago, and second because, as the first poster notes, it isn't a stretch to believe the Atlantean version of Hell resembles Christianities'. It might be hard to believe IF they had developed their versions independently, but given that the Greeks could have copied the idea from surviving Atlanteans and the Christians from the Greeks, plus the existence of a genuine Hell that resembles in 616 that resembles the Christian version which could have been visited by and inspired ancient Atlanteans as easily as medieval Christians, that independent development assumption goes out the window. Lokiofmidgaard 02:03, March 14, 2010 (UTC)